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Who: Yaha-kui zaShunina (

fractaljesus) & Kirei Kotomine (

congratulating)
What: A conversation
When: September 26
Where: Residential district
Warning(s): None

It has been several days since Kirei and zaShunina had first met and the priest had agreed to help the anisotropic being with his "advancement." They had arranged to meet today to discuss just what that meant, and as the clock approaches the appointed time, zaShunina can be found approaching the designated rendezvous point. He arrives just as the hour strikes noon, accurate down to the second.

Perhaps he might look suspicious just standing there, staring straight ahead, pristine white cloak contrasting with the rows of dirty houses. His posture is rigid and upright, but not at all guarded, and to an outsider must appear as though a rich noble got lost in the slums... or is waiting for something less than innocent.

And there he will wait for as long as it takes for Kirei to arrive--still as a statue, yet perfectly aware of everything around him.

"I am gladdened by this opportunity to speak with you, Kirei Kotomine." He finally moves when the man does arrive, turning toward him with a faint smile.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

The movement of the people does not feel different than the mulling masses on his now dead world. A familiarity in the way the crowds make their way through the city -- bloated, congested, with the only difference being that all the races are not human. But that may be his own delusions speaking. Everyone wants to return to their old world and seek out the comfort that they once knew in the new. Himself included.

In that respect, zaShunina may be of the few that are truly adapting to the new world. Adapting in his mind does not mean constantly seeking old comforts -- or images of the old -- but melding into the new without losing oneself. It is accepting the death of their worlds and grieving for the loss. Of course, the alien does not appear accustomed to grieving (or perhaps, Kirei is not able to recognize zaShunina's grief as a human).

All the same, Kirei arrives at the meeting time a few minutes later than intended. The layout of each area is nothing to sneeze at, and it will take him some time to move through them with ease. So, he has to keep to set routes ...which makes his truce with Archer much needed since he is not so used to the layout of the city to make alternate paths daily without the possibility of becoming hopelessly lost.

"As am I." He responds to the greeting with his own half-smile. "I am hoping that before we start the true reason for our meeting that I could ask you something. I am curious on your take of what you have seen and heard so far." His smile sharpens for a second before returning to its neutral state. He recalls this phrase from years ago and knows what he is actually asking zaShunina.

While he may not be able to get a good read on the alien (beyond that zaShunina is "good as an angel is good"), he is curious what has caught the being's interest. And so he asks in asking what zaShunina has experienced which will be different from his own experiences based on what Kirei focuses his attention on.

Emotions in general are something that, until very recently, the being known as Yaha-kui zaShunina had never experienced. An eternity had passed without ever feeling anything, and so to grieve is something he has not learned. It is an illogical emotion--one without basis or purpose. Everything is temporary, so why grieve? Everything except the anisotropic.

Red eyes watch Kirei without blinking as he speaks, and only when he's finished does he look away, taking in the sight of the people and buildings before him.

"You are asking what I think of this world." He begins, pausing only briefly before continuing. "It is a marvel--a place where those who have lost their worlds may begin anew. However, it faces the same discordance as the world I came from previously. It is divided, torn." zaShunina's brows furrow slightly, lips drawn in a tight line. "I have learned of the divisions designated as 'countries' during my visit to the Earth of my world. There is friction between this country--Olympia--and a neighboring country--Wyver. There are rumors that this will result in war between the two."

When the man in white turns back to Kirei, his expression has returned to its usual emotionless mien. Not a mask--for that would imply he was hiding his true feelings--but rather the face of one who, in that moment, feels nothing at all. "Does that answer your question, Kirei Kotomine?"

Edited (Sorry, I think I may have accidentally infomodded. Fixed now.) 2017-09-26 21:39 (UTC)

"In not so many words, yes." His shoulders gives a small shrug as he admits to what he is doing. Indeed, there is no lie in what he says because when asked directly he does answer honestly -- though, the amount of honesty given depends on the person. Kirei listens carefully to what zaShunina explains of "his" world, and his smile widens slightly at the observation that this world is broken. If anything by the end, the fake priest almost looks proud of the analysis.

"Your answer does and doesn't answer my inquiry, zaShunina." He meets the neutral expression with a calm smile. "I had wondered what it is of this world that would catch your attention. Yet I am not surprised that it is the conflict that has caught your attention... the conflict within the society and across the borders. However, I regret to inform you that I believe most of the refugees here consider the matter separate from them." To illustrate his point, he brings his hands together before pulling them apart.

His eyes close as he continues. "From our first conversation, your concerns have not changed. Your wish for the good of the people remains... your focus is on the war that has not yet come and wondering what to do about it." He gives his own analysis of the response and slowly begins to explain why it doesn't answer his question. "It has been a few days time and so I thought that your focus would be on something else. That is to say, I wondered if you would find a singular interest or obsession of your own. But your attention remains on the whole rather than the individual."

He opens his eyes, smiling in the same proud way of before. "There is nothing wrong with that, of course, and I doubt you see anything wrong with it, either. I believe the question was a leading one and what it lead me to understand is that you will do fine here save becoming disappointed. Your mindset is two... hm, maybe three months ahead of everyone else's. Though, individually, you may find your thinking is a lifetime ahead of theirs."

Continuing, he makes a small gesture as he did when they first encountered one another -- it means that they should start walking rather than forcing zaShunina to stand and listen to him. "I wonder what interests you as an individual. The image that you have of this world is yours alone, though some will join you in it eventually. But as of now, you may find yourself unable to gather people who will be invested in what you see, because of their fixation on their image of the world. Understand?"

Kirei's observations are apt, but there are a number of points on which he is under a misapprehension. Still, zaShunina indulges his propensity for long speeches, waiting until he is finished to correct him.

"On the contrary, I have no intention to interfere with the conflict." Again, they walk together as they had the day they had met, as two companions despite having only known each other a short time meeting only twice. "Conflict inspires change, progression. It is in finding solutions to problems that mankind advances." He was completely aware when he had introduced his devices to humanity in his own world that conflict would result. Avoiding conflict was never his intention. Even without his devices, he is aware that the truths he could tell people would likely result in friction. "I mentioned the discord as part of my observations, but it is not my primary concern."

"What interests me as an individual is knowledge, information. I want to learn as much as I can about this world. But more than that, I want to help the peoples of El Nysa understand that which they do not; that is that there is more to this world--to all worlds--than they can perceive. That their 'image of the world' is incomplete."

zaShunina's hands, which had until now been tucked neatly beneath his cloak, appear from thin air as they had when he'd pointed out Kirei's name tag that first day, and he holds them out in front of himself as they walk. "This is one such truth." One of the hands floats up to point at the cross around Kirei's neck.

"For this example, I would like to borrow this."

"Mmn. That is true. It is only through the struggling do people come to understand themselves." A perpetually peaceful time will never let anyone see beneath the calm surface of their existence, of their own persona. Does Kirei believe everyone is like him? No. He knows he is a defective individual that has no right to keep living. Does that make him sad? No. He was born into the world and awoke into this new world. It is a pure desire to exist. What comes after is the trick known as living. Living itself is neither a curse or blessing.

But his mind digresses from the point as he ponders the existence of evil. "I was once part of a war. It was far more contained than the one that lays before us, but allowed me to come to understand myself. The person I was when I entered the conflict was dashed across the stone to become the person I am now."

A chuckle -- he thinks the person he was at the start of the Fourth Holy Grail War would attempt to kill the person he is now. "In short, I acknowledge that people may end up altered irreversibly when the conflicts start, but... it is up to the person if that is for the best." A beat. "You think change is for the good of the people while it is up to the person if they can live with themselves."

His eyebrows raised at the hand that points toward the cross he wears. He lifts his hand to cover it with his palm. "Why do you wish to borrow it? I am only curious, but I will tell you this that of all the things I own -- which suffice to say is but the clothes on my back -- that I would give to others except for this cross. It is the one thing I shall not ever let be borrowed or taken save for when I am dead. Still, I don't mind hearing why you want it."

Which is to say, given his immortal state, he will never give it up.

Ah, a treasured item. zaShunina understands, and so the pointing finger floats back over to its owner.

"It will be immediately returned, I assure you." He glances over at it, then up to Kirei's face, his own expression still blank as ever. "I require a small item for this demonstration. It doesn't have to be your cross--anything will do." He assures him, turning his gaze back to their path, which has led to the edge of the market district.

zaShunina's feet stop, rooted to the spot, as he takes in the sight of the market--lively and bustling. "If not your cross, an item from here will suffice." It's not just that he wants to look at the market district, of course not. If Kirei is willing to allow him to use the cross for his demonstration, he will pass on the market, but if not, then he may have to indulge zaShunina his curiosity.

Kirei touches his cross, rubbing it between index and middle finger. He holds onto it like he may slide it off of his neck but ultimately decides against it. His smile remains a calm one before he slides his hand off of the cross to slip into his jacket instead. Pulling out what appears to be just a red handle, he holds it out to zaShunina instead. "Whether you shall return it immediately or not, I cannot allow it to leave my person." His tone is vaguely apologetic.

"But this you may have. It is called a Black Key. A weapon, but only if -- well, they are accessed through way of magic. So, please be careful if you are looking to tamper with it." The hilt however appears to be empty of any blade. The loss of the Black Key would be unfortunate, but he would work to obtain more. It seems he need only work hard to acquire the weapons that he once had. "I hope it is not too large for your demonstration... and to be safe, point it away from yourself."

zaShunina takes it in his floating hand without a word, though his curiosity does win out, and he turns it around a few times to get a better measure of the Black Key. Accessed through magic, he says. zaShunina has no such control of magic, though it has fascinated him since arriving in this world, and so the hilt remains bladeless as he holds it. Once he finishes his scrutiny of the weapon, his arm--and the Black Key with it--vanish into thin air, as if they had never been there.

There's a shuffling in his cloak, as if the man is unused to navigating the heavy layers of fabric, and zaShunina's arm emerges from within, this time properly attached to his shoulder, the Black Key still gripped in his hand.

"Kirei Kotomine. Do you understand the form or function of this demonstration?" He asks, holding out his hand to offer the Key back to him. It is no trick, no magic spell, and it is indeed the same Black Key he'd given to him, completely unaltered.

It takes all of a few seconds of seeing the arm vanish to decide that he is glad that he did not give his cross to zaShunina. The alien has a view of the world that few do not; he may very well be the only "good" being as zaShunina does not lament or regret any of his decisions. That would not have stopped him from attempting to kill him should his cross disappear in such an abrupt manner. Kirei acknowledges the figurative feeling of his heart clenching -- of course, what lies where his heart is nothing more than black mud and a curse.

"No, I don't understand the form or function of the demonstration, but as before, I shall await for your explanation." Noted or not, he has become much more terse. His expression shows a brief moment of anger before it fades back to a neutral, indifferent look. He takes back the Black Key -- lifting his hand up he tightens his hold around the handle before a blade snaps out from the hilt. The blade itself is a meter long and obviously, it could not have been retracted in the once "empty" hilt.

"You looked interested in it there and so I wanted to show you how it looks when activated. Though, I suppose I should release it. Brandishing it as I am, it looks more like a threat than a demonstration." His tone remains calm before the blade literally dissolves, turning into dust and particles within seconds. He smiles in a way that matches his words before he slides the handle back into his robes.

It does not frighten him. Indeed, fear is an emotion to which he is a stranger. He fears nothing as there is nothing to his knowledge that can harm him. Even the concept of "harm" when applied to himself is incomprehensible. One must be "alive" to have a concept of "death." Still, there are passers-by who are beginning to shoot concerned looks at the two men, one of which had just brandished a sword at the other.

The Key did interest him. It still does, and he may inquire about it later, but for now it would be digressing from the point and purpose of his demonstration, and so he refrains from commenting on it (though he does file it away for the future). As for his explanation, zaShunina's retracts his hand and points skyward, bringing the other up to do the same beside it.

"You perceive the world in three dimensions--length," His hands separate, drawing a straight line between extended fingertips. "-Height," One hand raises upward, while the other drops toward the ground. "-and depth." His hands move now, drawing an invisible cube in the air that he traces via miming. "But there are more than just these three you man perceive." His arms vanish off his shoulders, cloak falling closed in their absence. On either side of him, his arms reappear, palms held upright toward Kirei. "Kirei Kotomine, I was reaching through these higher dimensions to move my hands, and with them your Black Key. It is not magic, but simply a different direction from length, height, or depth that has no equivalent word in any language." He quirks his head, hoping his explanation makes sense. Spoken language is such an imprecise method of communication. "Can you comprehend this?"

Edited 2017-09-28 18:17 (UTC)

"Mmn, I believe I can understand what you are saying." Far more conversational in tone, he nods as he watches how zaShunina moves his arms.

His anger flares are just that -- a burst of feeling before everything returns to nothing. There have only been a select few that have held his anger for longer than mere seconds. Zouken Matou and Kiritsugu Emiya. It brings a smile to his face that they are both in the same category as he believes Kiritsugu would feel sick that he is lumped in any group with that parasite. Kirei breathes out a slow, long sigh; his thoughts stop wandering and return to the conversation.

"So. It is your hope that humans can learn to interact in the same manner you can. Interact not in words but with the dimension you showed me. Because it is not magic but simply an unseen space that already exists." That would mean the manner in which zaShunina appears to be detaching his arm is not so but interacting with the world through another boundary. What can be gained from this -- Kirei answers his own question with what the alien says interests him.

Knowledge.

"It doesn't matter how it is used by humans, because humans will use it however they want. What matters is passing the information on." Another layer of the world peeled back in which humans (and other lifeforms) can explore. Something that lies beyond the quote-unquote physical. Only it is a physical dimension as zaShunina says no magic is used, and Kirei feels no magic.

And so, he includes zaShunina in on his analysis of what he is being shown. Of course, he cannot go into the full-depth of the various whys that come from such a demonstration, but the unnecessary question of why zaShunina would demonstrate in the first place -- he thinks he understands it.

That Kirei can understand so well brings a genuine smile to the anisotropic being's lips, and he nods his head.

"Yes, that is absolutely correct." It's a different means of bringing his intended advancement to mankind (as well as the other Nysans) than his original plan on Earth. It is slower, more gradual, but perhaps more readily accepted. To open their minds to the anisotropic, to the possibilities that exploring these other dimensions can bring. Not with the devices he'd brought with him to Earth, but with knowledge alone. It will serve the same purpose.

Though it might take a few more generations. But that is fine. zaShunina has all the time in the world.

"I do have a question for you, though, Kirei Kotomine." He begins, and his arms vanish back into the ether. "You said that you desired to assist me in this. With the information I have just given you, does that remain your intention? And if that is indeed the case, why?"

Kirei meets the genuine smile with a slightly warmer one of his own. It takes a second but he turns to start chuckling to himself. A realization hits him that he is being sacriligious constantly referring to zaShunina as a being like an angel. The thought came to him as he looked upon the inhuman appearance of the young man. One more sin, I suppose.

"A question for me?"

He repeats but isn't particularly surprised that zaShunina has a few for him. The first question is not a difficult one to answer. "No, it doesn't change my desire to help you. You're showing me something that I could access... well, perhaps, a few centuries too soon to attempt but it is a possibility." As he always thinks to himself, he has time on his hands to learn. Something to pass the time until this world is covered in a curse -- and dies much like everyone else's world did.

"The reason as to why I want to help you is close to the reason that you want to help humanity. I am curious what they will do with the knowledge. Perhaps, saying it is but mere curiosity is not doing you little favors. This is an endeavor that requires more than idleness, is that not so?" A beat. "It comes down to the fact I want to see if humanity will increase their own suffering in their pursuit." His voice lowers as he explains himself, watching the alien's face.

"As I told you when we first met, humans learn 'good' and 'evil' through knowledge gifted to them. But in learning any new concept, they also understand new levels of suffering. It is in that suffering that I find what interests me." His voice is soft enough that passerbys would have a hard time hearing him easily, but loud enough to be heard. zaShunina has no understanding of 'evil,' and Kirei finds himself wondering about how a being that knows no 'evil' would judge his actions.

"Do you know what suffering is, zaShunina?" He is no longer upset about what happened -- almost happened -- to his cross but legitimately wonders. "Emotionally, do you know what it is to feel anguish?"

If Kirei is looking for any change in the Anisotropic being's face, he'll find none, for zaShunina remains placid, not an ounce of judgment in his eyes.

"It is my desire that this advancement would lead to happiness, but it is as you say; change leads to suffering as well. However, I have learned that happiness and suffering are not mutually exclusive."

Though they are interested in different things, they aren't dissimilar. They're both motivated by curiosity. The curiosity about what mankind will do with the knowledge. Curiosity is, after all, the pursuit of information, and as zaShunina had said before, there is no good or bad information. Information is just information. As for Kirei's question about anguish...

"I do not." He answers easily... But it isn't true. Nor is it a lie, however. He feels pain in his chest whenever he looks at Shindo's sleeping face in his pod, but without the context or experience to understand this pain, he cannot define it. He does not know what it means to feel anguish.

"No, they are not."

A friendlier smile shows itself -- one that doesn't seem completely genuine but the effort behind it has meaning. Indeed, there was a time when he hated how much joy he took from watching other's suffering. It was the unfortunate combination of having a personality that lacked empathy and fed off misery yet had high morals and common sense. His eyes shift to look toward the marketplace. But I cannot call it common sense, anymore. A human's sense, perhaps? In any case, he has come to learn to live with the contradiction.

"It is something that I know much on and so, it seems that is knowledge that I can give you." Kirei cannot call his offering a gift in the same manner. He once more looks around at the crowds of people. It is not that he hides himself for the shame, but he wants to see the core of this world; he wants to help zaShunina to inflict new waves of pain. If his intentions are found out, that would hurt the alien's desire to educate the masses and affect his ability to see the end of all things.

His head gives a small jerk to indicate that they should walk to a less crowded area. The hum of the crowds -- in languages he probably would not understand if not for the translation means given to them by the Natha -- should cover up some but still. "And then we can speak on how I can help you ensure that more people could have the information that you are wishing to hear."

"I want to know it."

Perhaps he can't call it a gift, but to an Anisotropic being, any new information or knowledge is a gift--even if it's painful. To learn true suffering--to understand and internalize its meaning, not just the theoretical definition--this might not seem a gift for one of human mind, but for Yaha-kui zaShunina, it would be an invaluable experience.

zaShunina nods his fluffy head and steps away from the crowd, eager to hear what Kirei could tell him given less claustrophobic conditions. He knows now that he was correct in approaching the man that day in the square. They are very much alike. Even if one wants to see how humans suffer as a result of this new knowledge and the other wants happiness, they both want to see what humans will do with the information given them.

The further they walk from the market, the more the crowds thin, and the quieter the air becomes. "What do you think is the correct course of action, Kirei Kotomine?" He asks once there are few enough people that one could speak at their normal volume yet still not be overheard. "What do you believe is the right answer?"

"The correct course of action would be to allow you to do as you please with minimal assistance from me. When you find yourself at a brick wall, that would be when to call upon me for help." Kirei gives his honest opinion on the question. "Otherwise, while I will do everything in my power to ensure that what you wish to teach is given to as many people as possible, I will also do what I can to ensure the level of suffering will be at its highest."

One can never say that he is never honest. Indeed, he rarely if ever outright lies. Omissions of the truth here and there are what he does -- even with people that he has known for years. zaShunina gets the full explanation because the alien does not hold the ideals of "good" and "evil" within him. Something Kirei will continue to comment on to himself, because he finds the lack of concepts within his companion fascinating. Irisviel was capable of coming to understand what "good" and "evil" were; her daughter was able to do the same. Both homunculus through learning and slowly acquiring human sense came to comprehend these concepts. Yet for how long zaSHunina has been with humans, he has not taken them into himself.

"I shall attempt to explain suffering, then." Because without the attachment to "evil," it is just an explanation at this point. Perhaps, one day, zaShunina will look back on this conversation and the many that will follow and understand then what 'evil' is. Perhaps, the alien will regret his actions at that point, too. Who is to say? "Suffering can come in various ways. Physical, emotional, and psychological. The physical is easy enough to obtain. One need only act violently to another person and that would bring them suffering. The first is a fairly simple concept."

As for the rest, he laughs -- actually sounding happy himself. "Emotional and psychological are different, of course. Both deal with the mind. You could scream at a person but that may not cause them any sort of distress. You could insult another, and that also would not bring any result. An individual who is confident and has an image of themselves within their mind cannot be easily harmed by these small barbs." He straightens his posture. "Then, how do you ensure that you're properly affecting a person?"

His head tilts. "It comes to seeing a person and noting their weaknesses. Emotionally, it is giving them a sense of hope through the hopeless. Like the state of our worlds. They are gone now, yet we're here with other refugees. We are not alone. There is hope to continue to exist as we have always existed without having to change ourselves if we desire it. Yet the emotional turmoil comes when we look upon those that are still asleep within the pods. That is the hopelessness that brings suffering to the hopeful. It is gifting the future that they may one day awaken even though the possibility might actually be less than 0.01%. Hope in hopelessness -- that is the best way to bring emotional suffering but there are others."

He nods as he continues. "Psychological torment is in the same vein. You give the illusion of choice. You give the idea that the individual has all the power and all the control they have over their lives, when they have none. It's different than handing out a hope that they can experience. It's allowing their image of the world become corrupted to where their freedom is allowing themselves to fail. You set them up for failure in small ways, large ways, and with the illusion of choice and autonomy given to them... they have no one else to blame but themselves. So, for most, they will try harder. Try harder and harder to correct what has caused them failure, but so long as the situation is set against them... they'll continue to fail and so, their mind shudders and whimpers. Their imagined choices have been used up, and they are left with nothing but an isolated, alienated view of themselves and the world."

Taking a good look at zaShunina's face, he gestures to the alien. "Do you understand a little better now? Would you like me to elaborate on anything?" And so, the alien should see what suffering Kirei is hoping for in gifting knowledge -- the psychological of giving them the choice to better themselves and knowing that they cannot.

Edited (... wall text but one part of it wasn't one I was happy with) 2017-09-29 18:42 (UTC)

Still, Yaha-kui zaShunina's face remains static and unchanging, never even bothering to blink while Kirei proposes the nature of their working relationship. So he desires to take an advisory role in all of this. It is unlike the relationship he'd had with his emissary from Earth, who had taken an active role in negotiations with mankind. Kirei is willing to grant him free reign to act as he pleases as he spreads his knowledge to the Nysans with minimal interference. On the other hand, he would be willing to be more active, but would intentionally maximize the amount of suffering his actions would cause. zaShunina doesn't answer at first, allowing Kirei his explanation before making a decision.

As Kirei explains, zaShunina's porcelain mask of a face remains, as ever, completely still. Yes, he understands. He understands as well as he can from an objective standpoint, as one who knows thoroughly the definition and meaning of a thing but cannot empathize or internalize it. One can know and understand from a theoretical standpoint the feeling of suffering, but without having ever experienced it, one can't truly know it. And there he stands on one side of the chasm, with Kirei on the other.

"I want to see what mankind will accomplish in attempting to overcome this suffering." He says finally when Kirei finishes speaking. It was as he'd said before; it is in solving conflict--in overcoming hardship that humanity advances. His knowledge--the information about the anisotropic--will come with it suffering, as Kirei says. But this suffering is a catalyst, the push mankind (and the rest of El Nysa) needs to begin their advancement.

"I consent. I accept your terms, Kirei Kotomine."

"Is that so?" Even knowing the depth of knowledge that Kirei has on suffering, zaShunina wishes to see if mankind can rise above it. He can accept that wish, because it is giving an answer to a question that the alien has about humanity. The priest can understand the desire to find an answer to something that does not exist within himself. zaShunina cannot experience suffering in a way that Kirei can comprehend -- with that lack of "experience," he wishes to believe in humanity's ability to evolve despite the emotional and psychological damage that Kirei intends to inflict.

There is nothing "evil" about those intentions. It is believing in the best in mankind while also being separate by mankind. The question that zaShunina is asking without realizing is if humanity is capable of growth, or are they a species not worthy of saving? His eyes close as he slides his hands behind his back, holding them at the wrist. zaShunina says that mankind is a miracle that deserves to survive. He believes that in so many years time that it will fade and die. His intention is to save it, but the question that he's also asking is if they're capable of saving themselves. If they are not capable, if they prove themselves unworthy -- zaShunina will attempt with the next generation and the next, believing and believing.

"Yes, I believe that you're own suffering will come from this exercise. I cannot have you accept my terms without realizing that as well. You may finally come to realize what it is to feel agony, and whether or not I am the direct cause of it... you will most likely feel it due to my influence." He closes one eye as he looks at the alien. This may be the most honest that he has been in a long time. Even with Gilgamesh, he kept one or two (or ten) things to himself after awhile. Kirei wouldn't say that it's refreshing or eases anything within his heart, however. That would mean that he took any sort of enjoyment or happiness out of feeling trust to another person.

"My own suffering?" He repeats, canting his head as if the concept is foreign to him. And it is. It is something he can't know, not without actually experiencing it, but Kirei claims that that knowing will result from this partnership, from inflicting that same suffering upon this world. Perhaps Kirei might not be able to understand it as a human, but...

"That is acceptable." It is no misguided sense of martyrdom behind his words. He doesn't desire to suffer for the sake of mankind, but for his own sake--to truly know what it means just the same as he would want to know the meaning of happiness. It is, in a way, a selfish desire, but zaShunina would argue that all desires are inherently selfish, even those rooted in so-called altruism.

"Yes." And it isn't that he will focus on so that zaShunina feels agony or suffering. Indeed, just because he takes great pleasure in it doesn't mean that he makes it a point of his life to bring ruin to every single person he meets. That alone would be taxing and consuming. Moderation is always the key to all things.

"Very well." Beneath the words, he doesn't hear someone that is feeling like being a martyr for his cause. zaShunina does not have the smell of someone who wishes to die in order to achieve what he wants. No, he is someone who wants to see it rather than hope for the best, as it were. Kirei nods in agreement to the terms. "People may be upset in knowing that you knew so much of me but still allowed me to bite you, as it were."

It isn't like him to give so many warnings -- one or two is enough, as far as he's concerned. His shoulders give a small shrug as he decides that this will work out fine. "In any case, it seems as though we're agreed. The knowledge that you have will, indeed, help people expand their horizons. I had just been talking about setting up a school, myself."

"Bite me?" He repeats, perplexed by the curious choice of words. Regardless, he comprehends the gist of what Kirei had meant, and very pointedly refrains from commenting further on it. Whether this means he's dismissed the possibility as a complication, his small smile does not reveal.

"A school would allow for the spread of information to a greater number of individuals." He nods in approval, his smile slipping back into impassivity. Along with the information zaShunina wants to spread, a school would be a good source of general knowledge, which is something Yaha-kui zaShunina will always approve of. But now Kirei has him curious, his gaze softening somewhat.

"What do you desire to teach?"

"It's an old story from even my youth that speaks about betrayal." Kirei takes the time to make light about his age, like he is much older than zaShunina but in truth, he probably is not. "The story goes that a farmer comes across an ailing snake. In this particular story, animals can talk. So, as any creature desiring to live, the snake begs the farmer to help him. Out of the kindness and goodness of his heart, the farmer does just that. When the snake recovers, he bites the farmer. The farmer lay dying from the poison and begs to know the reason why. To which the snake replies that the man knew he was a snake when he brought him in."

His shoulders give a small shrug as he tells his little nursery story. "It is saying that you know that I am someone who is like a snake, and while you're aware of what I will do, others will say that you allowed yourself to be bit." A beat. "Or worse. But you are one that lacks malicious intent. It is like it does not exist within you. Because of that lack of sadism within you, your actions will be forgiven. In that, you shall always be considered 'good.'"

Mulling over the question of what he would teach, he would like to teach these sort of lessons. Kirei chuckles to himself -- a man that was born defective teaching lessons of morality. It certainly would bring him some small level of amusement. If he put it into words, he would find it pleasing to inflict people with his ideas of morality. But in the end, he knows that is impossible. The more people see his twisted views of the world; the more it would be difficult to do what he would want to do.

"I suppose what I desire is to inflict others with morality." Yet he answers honestly. "I don't expect people to believe in what I believe. Yet if they're able to see the wrong in my beliefs, it means that they're learning something, too. Every young hero needs a villain, an evil to fight against. The mentality that has allowed me to live this far would allow others to become twisted beneath it. However, it's through experience and knowledge that they realize what will not make for a better world."

Calmly, he finishes, "I wish to teach others to have good intentions and to live by them completely, because that is the only way to truly spread suffering near and far."

As Kirei recites the story, zaShunina listens with rapt attention, though his expression might give the impression that it bores him. He knows a variation on the tale involving a scorpion and frog, but this is the first time he's heard this version. Yes, he's aware of what he's getting into in trusting this to Kirei, and while the implications do not escape him, he thinks it will result in a net gain regardless, and therefor worth the risk.

"Inflict with morality. A peculiar choice of words." Again, there is that insistence that Kirei is evil. zaShunina doesn't believe it. He doesn't believe that anyone or anything can be evil (or good, for that matter), but moral quandaries have never been his strong suit. If Kirei is to be believed, that makes him inherently "good." He still doesn't understand this point of view, but it doesn't matter. Kirei tries to understand him, and vice-versa, but there will always be an impenetrable wall between humanity and himself.

"You are a very interesting human, Kirei Kotomine." He smiles.

"That's correct. They already have their own ideas of morality, but I would like it to become more enhanced, a deeper understanding of morals. I wish for them to understand what 'good' is." If he had to teach something, yes, that would be what he wanted to teach. Kirei breathes out half a laugh. "In those that seek to do good, they will inevitably commit evil. With the high morals that I would teach them, they'd realize that even though my way of thinking is wrong, they still committed crimes in the name of righteousness. That is all that I can really hope for ... the contradiction that comes about in those desiring goodness."

His tone of voice changes slightly to something sounding less neutral and more pleased, happier. Yes, it honestly pleases him the idea of bringing such misery to people with nothing more than having them become moral individuals. Because the world, as he has seen it, will not allow them to live with high morals. The heel of his hand rests over one eye just as he tips his head back to chuckle to himself. It lasts for a short few seconds before he lowers his hand and his expression returns to a calm one, again.

"Interesting human? You're not the first being that has said so... but I wonder why you think that I am." A beat. "I wonder not out of vanity, but what is it in me that you find 'interesting.' The being that once called me 'interesting' only did so because he realized what I was before I realized it. And so, with that revelation long since past... I wonder what is interesting about me now."

In a way, they are alike in their desires. Both want to open minds to a greater understanding, the only difference being the specific concept they wish to spread. For Yaha-kui zaShunina, it is the anisotropic, and for Kirei, morality. Both have their reasons for their desires--but despite Kirei's insistence that he is evil and zaShunina fundamentally "good", it is the human who has been the most forthcoming of the two.

zaShunina says nothing, and in fact barely reacts at all when Kirei speaks, his mannequin smile set firmly in place. It is only when the man laughs that the anisotropic being even moves, quirking his head ever so slightly.

"You are interesting." He repeats, and almost seems about to leave it at that, waiting just a few seconds longer than could be comfortable for conversation were either of them "normal" people. "You are specialized in goal to one purpose and possess a strong drive to pursue this goal." And something about that fake smile becomes more genuine. "I like humans like you."

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Had to type this twice because my phone lost it the first time

IT'S A ROUGH LIFE

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